HOW DO YOU DENY A JERK?

This guy is a "jerk" and he is "jerking" me around! This is a long one, might want to get a bowl of popcorn!

Let's use fake names to make it easier...John and Mary Doe applied for an apartment April 6th for a move in to Apt. A (which was on notice to vacate April 30th). They were to move in May 5th.

I spent most of the month of April trying to get his paystubs, while he was traveling. Finally got them about 10 days after the application.

He kept changing his mind about which apartment he wanted. Then finally settled on Apt. B, also available at the end of April.

I called to ask why he had not brought me the security deposit and he said he found out he couldn't move until June because the landlord required a 60-day notice to vacate. (He didn't call me).

So, he asked for Apt. C, which was coming open in June. He didn't get it due to multiple applications and he was the least qualified.

On the day he finally brought the security deposit, May 7th, which was 2 weeks after approval of his application, he said he could move sooner, May 18th and asked for Apt. D, this time.

We busted our butts getting it ready and he's no where to be found.

He also flirts heavily with me and makes me very uncomfortable doing so.

I would love to get rid of this guy!!! He has not met any timeline given in our criteria for returning items needed to process the application, the security deposit, and now not moving in on the date agreed to.

Can I just give him his deposit and tell him to look elsewhere? What kind of options do I have, especially if he calls me Monday wanting to move in next weekend?

I only have this one available and 2 more coming open that are not rented.

Makes we want to work this weekend and rent everything I have left!!!

Any advice? Sorry so long.

I'm not looking foward to 12 months with this guy!!!

Anyone want to rent an apartment this weekend???????

Last I checked, Sandy; being a jerk was not one of the protected classes.

I would want to give the applicant the benefit of the doubt that there were reasons beyond his control that caused the delay in him getting you the information you needed.

-The fact that he was traveling and could not get you the pay stubs was a weak, but viable excuse (not his fault, but he could have gotten to a fax machine and sent them, or had them delivered).

-The fact that he was required to give 60 days notice he should have known from the beginning. Is it common in your area? Here in Ca, a 30 day notice is all that is required by law; and that cannot be altered to the 60.

Did he leave a reservation deposit? What does your reservation agreement say?

This situation would give me cause to review the reservation agreement (or start using one) that says the following key points:
1) That the reservation deposit must be made at the time the application for housing is submitted. It should also indicate that the deposit is refundable under the following conditions:
- Applicant reconsiders his application within 72 hours.
- You must decline the application as the applicant does not meet the qualifications, and can deny the application on the basis that the information you need to process the application is not provided within 72 hours.
2) That the reservation deposit is for the specified unit and move in date at the time of application. If the applicant's schedule changes within the 72 hours, and you can meet the schedule; that you can transfer the reservation deposit to the new unit. If a subsequent change is needed, you can stipulate that the initial deposit is forfeited and a new deposit will be required.
3) That no unit will be reserved for a move in date beyond 2 weeks after it is available.
If you can meet the schedule, and his reasons for delay were fair; just be flexible and deal with it. As far as the flirting is concerned; I would discuss this with 'Mary'..... or make sure she sees it somehow.

Feel free to email me your reservation agreement and I can see what I can come up with.

Sandy! I know exactly how you feel!!!! My first thought is he does not have the money to move, whether to hire movers or pay the rent. My second thought is he may be shopping for whatever deals an apartment community will give him. And third, he is a jerk. Put these thoughts in whatever order you prefer.

I know this is how I train leasing consultants to handle the Applicant process: Applicants may pay the App Fee, wait until it is processed and then decide to place a security deposit for an available apartment. Unless there is a Security Deposit, we don't consider the unit rented and it is not held. Almost 99% of the time, Applicants pay all fees at the time of Application because the verbiage on the application states anyone who applies, is approved and does not move in on the specified date, loses his Security Deposit, as it is considered "damages" for holding a unit.

It is amazing that so someone can be so annoying and disrespectful of your time and energy. We have probably all had these kinds of people but it does not make it any easier. The next time he comes in and makes you feel the least bit uncomfortable, I would flat out call him on it and suggest he stop immediately. I know a lot of people will tell you to laugh that off by making light of it, but if you are the only one in the office, you should not have to put up with that. Only you can decide just how uncomfortable he is making you feel. Sometimes, it is a good idea to call in your assistant or another leasing person, even the Maintenance Tech while this kind of person is in your office.

Hello Sandy,

You got great advice from Johnny and Mindy! For sure you want things outlined on dates information or funds are required and if the terms are not met all deals are off. The flirting thing, for sure call the person out and not deal with him alone!

From all that you have said, it seems as though this person may not be one that you want as a tenant and may not be bad if they take another place. No matter what just keep it professional. Make sure your personal feelings do not cause you to make a mistake where you violate a law or rule.

For sure look at your prospect policy and requirements because it is there where I think some of those situations could have been handled!

I have very specific policies in my Resident Selection Criteria:

1. 24 hour deadline for anything needed to process an application (pay stubs, phone numbers, etc.)
2. 48 hour deadline to pay the security deposit upon approval to hold an apartment. They sign the lease at this time.
3. If they don't move in 7 days after the date agreed upon, the apartment is given away.

He violated both 1 and 2, so far. He said he "didn't know" he only had 24 hours to bring in the pay stubs (jerking me around).

I gave him a specific date to bring in the deposit, twice, he failed to do so both times, but he did finally bring it in.

This is the first move-in date he has missed, but I'm feeling like he'll be paying his rent in the same manner and I'm not happy about that. Previous history had only 2 late payments in 12 months. He's not the only applicant, his girlfriend works down the street, so why can't she bring in these things? I've only dealt with him.

I plan to make it very clear I'm not interested in his attention. I Skype my husband on my computer every day for security reasons. I plan to introduce them.

Thanks for the input! I really don't want this guy around. What if he starts flirting with my residents and make them uncomfortable? That is a huge concern, too.

Hi Sandy, I would change that 7-day rule. Seems like if the person is required to sign the lease, then this guy is just playing you since he is already not following your rules. Once you explained all this to him, and he didn't comply, it's easy to then place his Application in the Unassigned Applicant File and move on. When he comes in, I'd just say, "Oh, yes, I remember you? Would you like to complete the process now, signing your lease and paying the prorated rent, etc.?"

The next part of my response comes from a personal experience that I rarely discuss. However, please pay attention to how you feel when you are in this person's presence. Please understand that your internal radar sends you the hairs-on-the-back-of-your-neck feeling to protect you. I was assaulted once when I worked in the school system and this is why I don't teach any more. If this guy is "not right" it doesn't matter why you feel that way. Again, I know people may say I am making too big a deal out of it and he may just be innocent in his intentions. Don't introduce him to your husband as this introduces an element of personalization with him and indicates friendliness. Just don't be alone with him. If he is moving in with a girlfriend, they both have to sign the lease so they should both come in together. I would insist that someone else be in the Office if at all possible or at least have your phone handy so you can call someone, even 911.

I am not trying to be overly dramatic. But the field of real estate and property management can leave one vulnerable, so don't take it lightly.

I have had Prospects who come for multiple showing appointments and I will give them a deadline - in a nice way - that they need to make their decision, apply, pay the money and move in. I had this one lady who just wanted to come out all the time. She finally applied but could not seem to set a move in date, so we talked and I just told her she was not ready to move. I told her I would hold her application for 6-months; otherwise she would need to re-apply and re-qualify. That ended all her requests to see something and all her "just stopping by" visits and the endless phone calls. She liked the attention.

Finally, if this person moves in ... I would stick to every letter of the lease regarding the late payments. A history of any late payments is enough for me to disqualify an Applicant. Could this be changed to allowing only one? After all, you are correct, he may try to pay late all the time if he thinks he can get away with it. As far as flirting with Residents, I guess all you can do proactively on that one is to make sure he understand his responsibilities as a Resident himself and address issues only as they arise.

Sandy; I would change the first 3 rules as follows:

1) All application documents and deposits/fees must be submitted AT THE TIME OF APPLICATION. These documents can include proof of income in the form of paystubs or bank statements and many of these documents are available online to them anyway. In the place of pay stubs, I would accept bank statements to show a pattern of deposits from an employer/government benefit program (social security) or an investment plan. In the absence of these documents, page one of the last 2 federal tax returns should be used.
2) Deposits/fees as follows:
a) Application fee(s) $x per applicant NON REFUNDABLE money order only.
b) Reservation deposit $100 refundable within 72 hours of applicant changes their mind, or refundable upon denial of application by management within the same 72 hours. A reservation deposit is not to be applied to an apartment for longer than 2 weeks after it becomes available to rent, however it can be for a non specific unit/move in date as a 'floating deposit' if move in date is more than 30 days out for the next available unit of the desired floorplan. This locks in the rent rate or special offered at the time of the tour and is not refundable in this case unless you deny the application for whatever reason within your criteria.

Explain to your applicant that you must process and approve/deny the application within 72 hours of submission and must have the documentation to do so.

Again, feel free to send me your reservation agreement and I will review / revise it for you.

I don't like to keep posting to my own post, but... He signed the lease last week and took it to his girlfriend to sign because of her work schedule. He was supposed to bring it in, signed, Friday, pay the pro-rated rent and get the keys.

He called my cell phone twice (still don't know how he got the number) and didn't leave any messages. Never called the office. Didn't show up to move in. Hasn't called all weekend.

He is in some branch of the military and travels.

I think he is jerking me around because he doesn't have the money to move in now and he's trying to delay his move-in date to an apartment that I told him I would only hold for two weeks. The move-in date I required for the apartments I have available now did not work for his move-out requirements for his current apartment. I wouldn't have anything else for him to move into. So, if he jerks me around and delays his move-in date, he probably this he won't have to pay rent for these last couple of weeks in May and he'll have something to move into by June 1st.

That's what I think. He also put on his application he made $59,000 per year and, after I finally got his pay stubs, I could only verify $29,000. "Jerking me around."

I have a partially signed lease with a move-in date of May 19th. No rent, no tenant and I have the keys.

My Resident Selection Criteria says if they don't move within 7 days of the date agreed upon, I can cancel their application. I'm ready to cancel it now!

I will be changing my lease and Selection Criteria immediately.

Now you have legal cause to deny the applicant for false/unverifiable information on his application. PUT THIS IN YOUR CRITERIA, ON YOUR APPLICATIONS, AND ON YOUR RESERVATION AGREEMENT. Any unverifiable or false information will be considered attempted fraud and an application can be denied on that basis.

I would require all lease signers to be present at the same time to sign the lease. No exceptions.

If he is in the military, you can contact the superior officer in his chain of command, usually the unit's commanding officer. I think that the military took it's LES and made them available online some time ago. Nate; can you clarify and advise?

Hello All,

Once you said he was in the military, then there are some ways to know what his pay is. When he filled out his paperwork for rent what did he write in as his place of employment, did he provide a rank. If he did, then you can go on line and see what the pay is for that rank.

Make sure he is not a DoD civilian working for the military. Service member receive housing allowance if they are authorized to live off post. All personnel are required to check into their local Housing Service Office before going off post seaking housing. So, you do not contact the commanding officer at this time.

You want to follow the wording of your contract to the letter. If he has violated his portion up front then contact the local Housing Service Office (HSO) and let them know what is going on.

The other thing is the military is very strick about conduct and if this person is a noncommissioned officer or a commissioned officer then there are rules under the Uniform Code of Military Justice which they are government by and it is a total different system than on the civilian side.

The other thing is in their lease there should be a military escape clause in case of deployment. Here is the jist of that:

Under the Service Members’ Civil Relief Act, a military member can break his lease upon receipt of Permanent Change of Station orders or upon receipt of orders deploying him for at least 90 days. 50 App. U.S.C.A. § 535(a). If one of those events occurs, then the landlord cannot refuse to allow the military tenant to leave. This provision of federal law also applies to any of the military member’s family members who may have responsibility under the lease. 50 App. U.S.C.A. § 535(a)(2). A military tenant who is either moving or being deployed is still responsible for any reasonable repair costs to the residence beyond normal wear and tear.

To terminate a lease under this law, the military member must provide the landlord with written notice and a copy of the orders. 50 App. U.S.C.A. § 535(c)(1)(A). The military member can either deliver this notice in person or mail it certified mail, return receipt requested, to his landlord. 50 App. U.S.C.A. § 535(c)(2).

Other legal matters with any military member should be taken through the post legal office, but make sure you have all your ducks in a row (slang for make sure you have everything correct).

If this is a military member or a Department of Defense (DoD) civilian, then you can chat with me and I can for sure give you the correct lines to shut this crap down in a micro second. You can even send me the military installation and I can get numbers for you to contact.

The one thing is do not play around. Stick to your contract wording as this is there to keep you straight. If it starts out being a problem and you do not correct it, you will have problems the whole time and it is not worth it.!

Nate;

I think your post, while excellent advice and good information; was slightly off topic.

Sandy indicated that this applicant was giving her trouble in the application process and not providing her the information she needed to process the application. When the information was finally given; it was found unverifiable at best, but likely false. When the information was proven false; this gives her legal cause to deny the applicant as the information was fraudulent.

Additionally, she had trouble with the applicant in terms of setting a move in date and the applicant was getting a little too friendly for her. This made her uncomfortable and rightly so.

When she finally did get a commitment, the co-applicant was magically 'not available'.

My advice stands that the applicant was giving false information and should be declined on that basis alone; nothing more needs to be brought into the picture. Simple.

Forgetting about the false information, the advice in my previous responses is still valid.

I agree with all the advice that has been given so far regarding sticking to the application and leasing policies that are in place. As far as the inappropriate behavior he has exhibited, I suggest you follow Mindy's advice. Do you happen to have a community police office assigned to your community? I once had a similar situation, so I had my community officer there every time the prospect showed up. After a while he cancelled his app and never called or came by again. Also if he calls your personal cell phone I would make it very clear this is not acceptable, that all business MUST be conducted on company time and on the business line. DO NOT feel you must deal with this. So what if you are over reacting...it beats the alternative.

My final suggestion includes seeking advice from your company attorney on what your next action can and should be. I see the problem is this: whatever you do cannot be interpreted as retalitory and you cannot change your policy midstream to apply it to this applicant. Personally, I would send him a certified letter with a Cc to your attorney stating that his move in date was set for May 19, 2012 and he has until May 25th to take possession of the assigned unit or forfeit all rights and monies paid. In that letter, I would also state that you have reason to believe that he may have provided misleading or false financial information on his application, and if proven true, this will disqualify his application and he forfeits all rights to possession of the assigned unit and all monies already paid. The fact that he signed the lease, a legally binding contract, may supercede the false information, but since I am not an attorney I do not know for sure. Seek legal advice at this point, Sandy. (I take it you don't have a Regional or higher up to consult?)

Hey Johnny,

Here is where I was going with this. I was fine with your first two bullet statements concerning the actions. To me the whole thing was done when she said he violated the first two portions in the contract he signed.

Where my portion came in was on your last bullet about calling the unit commander and about the LES (Leave and Earning Statement). The LES are online for the service member’s use, not for others to log onto and see. However, there is a site you can go to when you know the rank of the individual and see what their pay is and how much they can get for Basic Housing Allowance (BHA) or Basic Allowance for Housing (BAH).

It was information as well as a way to cut this to the chase. Sandy's last statement was "He is in some branch of the military and travels". If this is the case then call the Housing Service Office (HSO)of the post. All service members must go through them before they can go out and look for housing. You see there is a trick where the service member can get the documents they need, take it to the Housing office that stamps their paperwork, so that it can be submitted to finance and they can start their housing allowance. So maybe he just wanted some paperwork to doctor-up. This will then clear things up right away. Calling the unit commander can be problematic and this is their place of work. There can be some legal issues depending on the state. So, this is the basis of which I was trying to guide without saying do this and do that as I have the feeling there is a lot and my two cents is based upon what I read. There are many things I can talk to as this is my area of expertise when dealing with military, housing off post, and legal actions for conduct which is not in compliance with UCMJ about conduct and married personnel.

If anyone wants to know how much a person earns in base pay per pay grade, then go to:http://www.militaryfactory.com/military_pay_scale.asp there all can be seen. This by month.

For BAH rate with and without dependents go to this link: www.military.com/benefits/military-pay/b...r-housing-rates.html

So, all I wrote was to educate and help those who may not have the experience of dealing with the armed forces personnel. The other thing is calling directly to a unit; they are not just going to give out information over the phone to someone whose identification has not been verified.

Mindy's was the best advice and mine was to educate in the process when the military thing came up. Hope this clears up what I was attempting to do!

Nate; I was not indicating that Sandy would be able to see her applicant's LES statements online. I was only questioning why there would be a delay in his ability to get them to her. Unless the co-applicant had difficulties; there should be no reason for any delays. The LES statements should show all pay and allowances the applicant is receiving. Sandy stated that she was only able to verify 50% of the claimed income. This leads me to believe that she was able to verify the one income and not the income of the co applicant (possibly under the table and not reported???).

As far as contacting the unit commander in the event of a discrepancy or dispute; this is no different than contacting an employer to verify and clarify any and all information given by the applicant. It is simply due diligence on her part to use the philosophy of 'trust but verify' much like the procedures included in the INF treaty as we destroyed our weapons.

The housing service officer would be an easier person to contact; but in the event the property is not in the general vicinity of a military installation and the applicant is assigned as a hometown recruiter, there may not be a local housing service office to contact.

Well,

I gave my two cents of information based upon the information given. So, I guess we have beat this horse to death! All I can say is based upon the information I have this is the best advice I can give. As far as the recruiting command, I know how to deal with them as well, but there if the original poster needs assistance in this area I will be glad to assist at no cost! I mean other than flying there

You just undervalued your thoughts, Nate... Don't you know those 2 pennies are now almost 39 pennies?

.02 x 2 (for insurance) x 2 (for interest rates) x 2 (for income tax) x 2 (for inflation) x 1.2(for the cost to MAKE those pennies) = .39


:laugh:

He is in the Navy, don't know which branch. He called me from a ship in the Gulf of Mexico to tell me he would bring me pay stubs the following week when he got back. He goes away for several weeks at a time and comes back.

Anyway, he called me today and said he tried to call me the day he was to move in, but I didn't answer (he didn't leave message). I informed him he called on my private cell phone and that he needed to call the office. He didn't tell me why he didn't move in, but he told me he wanted to move-in Wednesday. Since I'm closed Wednesday, I said Thursday was OK to move in.

I told him to bring me the lease and pay the rent to pick up the keys. Can't wait to see what happens next.

In my state, a verbal lease is valid. So, I signed it, he signed it and I don't need the girlfriend's signature for it to be valid.

But, in order to be a valid lease, there has to be payment of rent and acceptance of payment of rent. We don't have that yet. And, I HAVE THE KEYS!!!

I don't have a regional manner, but my former regional manager, that I still call and ask for advice, is in Africa!!

I accepted their application because they qualify, even though his income was overstated, the verified income was more than enough.

Let's see what he does next. I changed my lease and criteria to keep this from happening again.

Thanks!

Personally I could not care if the verified income met your qualifications. What bothers me the most is this:

1) He gave information that was not verifiable; whether it was intentional or not, this is fraud.
2) He had so many issues causing delays in your process and ultimately his move in date. None of the excuses he gave rose to the level of reasonable (except the prior landlord issue). You really need to give applicants a 2 way 72 hour window, where they have the right to withdraw their application from consideration; or you must process and either approve or deny them for cause. If information is not provided within that 72 hours (preferably at time of application), it is grounds for denial. If the information is not found verifiable or accurate, it is fraud and grounds for denial.
3) The applicant and co applicant were not available at the same time to sign the lease and trade money for keys. Do this by appointment if you must.
4) The applicant was inappropriate with you.

Sandy, It's that southern accent you have, gets those out of towners everytime, lol!

I happened to run across this post, seen the name Sandy,but didn't even realize your last name and picture off to the side until after I said geez this sounds like Sandy from around the corner(skype with husband,), then I seen your picture and said I been darned. Hope it works out for you!

Kassey, Your Friend from around the corner

Kassey E, Willow wrote:

Sandy, It's that southern accent you have, gets those out of towners everytime, lol!

I happened to run across this post, seen the name Sandy,but didn't even realize your last name and picture off to the side until after I said geez this sounds like Sandy from around the corner(skype with husband,), then I seen your picture and said I been darned. Hope it works out for you!

Kassey, Your Friend from around the corner

Funny! I'm going to send this guy over to you if he doesn't move in Thursday. I'm sure you can straighten him out!!

We need to have lunch!!!

Well, here is how it ends...

He came in this morning (after I told him this afternoon)and brought me a money order for the correct amount. I asked him where the lease was and he said "It's at home, we don't really need it."

I grabbed the money order along with the keys, put them in the file and told him I'd give him the keys when I got the signed lease.

He left to get it, and brought it back signed by him and his girlfriend, so I gave him the keys. Then, he wanted me to walk-through the apartment with him. I told him to go ahead and I called my maintenance guy to meet him there.

He reached out twice to shake my hand and I told him I didn't shake hands and I didn't want his germs. He asked me what the noise was coming from my computer (everybody does) and I told him how my husband and I Skype all day long as my security in the model.

He thought it was a good idea.

Thanks for all of the advice. I learned a lot from this experience and I hope someone else learned something, too!

So what did you come up with for new applicants going forward? Would you like another set of eyes to look at what you have?