Apartment Guide vs. ForRent

Hi Everyone,

I know every market is different, but I'm really starting to see a trend in Apartment Guide and ForRent performance. At least in the Georgia and Florida market, it seems ForRent is leading in performane and cost, but who is the best on a National level in both print and online marketing? Please give me your input.

Thanks,
Pedro

Pedro,
Have you checked out Apartment Finder? I am part of the AF Family and we have invested heavily in our internet presence. At the same time we have continued to maintain our same level of high volume, prospect focused onland print distribution.

This is definitely among my most asked questions at seminars and consulting visits. In the spirit of full disclosure, I did work for For Rent for a time about a decade ago. But I also started print magazines in various markets and I know this business inside and out. If the two are competing head to head in a market, and if there may even be a third candidate like Apartment Finder or a locally-produced guide, it all comes down to distribution. In some markets, Apartment Guide blows For Rent away by being in better supermarkets or convenience stores. Go out in your market area and look for the magazines. Are they hard to find? Are they everywhere? It is a numbers game - the number of distribution points and the number of magazines printed. I used to laugh when the print guide reps would come into my office and try and hand me thirty magazines - I'd say, "No thanks! I am not a distribution point for your publication, it looks like you are printing too many, which means I am paying too much." As for the online exposure, this changes all of the time. All of the major online guides, which includes For Rent and Apartment Guide's .coms jostle for position and paid placement. Do your own research to see who better penetrates your market. AG didn't concentrate on the online side for many years because they felt it took business from print. But they have gotten over that and have steamed ahead. For Rent has more coverage in markets they don't have a print guide in. So many variables, anyone who tells you one is simply better than another without doing the market specific research is selling you a line!

I definitely AGREE with you here, Christopher. APARTMENT GUIDE is
without a doubt, the BEST source...on-line and in stores. And
"no", I am not affiliated with this publication in any way.

It would be easy if you could set up your Qui'ja board and ask what was going to be the best for both now and in the future. Unfortuantely, it doesn't work that way. This question is one property managers have struggled with for decades, and will continue to debate. Technology and our prospects change consistently, as are distribution points as publishers vie for market share. I have always believed there are key factors and needs assessments that should be reviewed with every budget and market analysis, as well as periodic reviews with any plan to insure you are on track...and if not make changes. All of them can tell you why their service is the best and give you reasons why you should "choose" to spend your valuable dollars with them. Here are a few considerations before signing any marketing contract.

1. Perform a CBA or "Cost Benefit Analysis" on your current publiations and those in your market. Call competitors in other locations and ask specific questions. (a) What publications and internet marketing sites are you currently in? (b) If more than one, which one provides the most leases and leads and how many on average per month? (Look at leases and not just traffic. Afterall, leases impact your financial) (c) What other publications would you be in if you had the budget and why? If you have confidence in your leasing staff, look at your breakdown of leases for the publications you are in now and what is your "Cost per lease?" Look at your research data and compare.
2. As previously stated number of copies distributed is good, however, innefective if it doesn't get in your prospects hands or hit your target market. Drive a five mile radius of your property and visit every location where any type of publication can be found. Take notes such as what publications where found at what type locations, were the racks full or empty, where were the racks located and was it easily accessable to potential prospects? Most publishers will also provide you with a copy of distribution locations. I might expand my research if several major employers who were current or potential resident targets located outside that five mile area and visit sites in that area as well. I once had a publisher tell me they had "X" number of copies quarterly in distribution. When we drove the primary market we found a lot of competitor books, but few of theirs.
3. If you are in more than one publication (or internet site for that matter), you have got to make sure you are documenting leads correctly. Also remember that studies show over 92% of prospects that said they saw you in a publication also used the internet. This is why all of the "print" publications have put millions into electronic mediums as well.
4. Here is the clincher. Maybe it is not who you are advertising with, but what your are saying in your ad and how your ad looks (i.e. colors, pictures, how your bullet points are listed, how your directions are given, and what words you are using, etc.

Do your research, hit the road, verify what you are being told, check your current advertising, look at your staff, look at your property, and be prepared to justify the basis for your decision.

Nobody said the job was going to be easy!

It varies widely by market, you really need to watch the local results. But overall, i go with apt guide.

Each ILS advertising source performs differently. And that simply isn't by DMA at-large. I once had experiences where single cities in my DMA had one sole service that outpeformed all of the others. And the city next door had success with another (completely separate) source.

This is about knowing your market well. And if your ILS representative knows your market just as well (as they should), they should be able to 1) be honest with you and 2) be willing to work hard to ensure simliar cost-effective results to keep your business.

But the blog is also right in that tracking/responding to leads and ad content mean A LOT. Again, work with your ILS rep. (as they should be actively working with you) to find the right balance.

As always with advertising and marketing, variety is key and no one source is the answer. You never see big brands like Coke, Honda, Target, etc advertise in just one source or on one channel. That's why we all know their names and what they offer. Same needs to be done for properties unless you are a very big fish in a really small pond.
Ask your print guide reps for the locations of their distribution -the addresses are not a secret and they should be able to give you a list. Check to see that current magazines are there. Apt Guide has removed the dates from their magazines so it's hard to know if they are the current addition or not and at least in my markets they are very hard to find anyway.
And as has been said before every market is different and apartments can be rented without using any print guides at all...

I am a current Apartment Guide customer. We ended our relationship with ForRent a little over a year ago because the leads were just not coming in at all. On average I get about 75 leads each month from Apartment Guide compared to my 25-30 leads I would get from ForRent. The biggest difference between the two is the customer service. I received very little customer service from ForRent, not to mention the turn over was horrific... In the two years we advertised with them I had 4 or 5 different reps. One of my biggest problems with ForRent was their random showings at my property. They never called in advance, never made any attempt to see if it was okay to come out, or attempt to set up an appointment. On several occassions they would come in and act like I would drop my appointments for the day to assist them. These meetings were never about how they could improve their service for us, it was always a way for us spend more money to get better features that could help with the concerns we already had. I believe our costs were just shy of $1000.00 per month. I was getting as many leads from advertising in the local paper and college paper. I was happy to be done with my contract with ForRent and so far I am very pleased with Apartment Guide. Nichole, my rep, calls me or emails me before she comes out for a visit. She's prepared when she gets here and is actually knowledgable of her product. She can pull up my leads right away and we discuss closing techniques as well as follow ups. It's definately worth the money!

Great discussion everyone. I have to agree with many of the comments and points being made. One thing that I have noticed since joining Apartmentguide.com a little over 2 years ago is that there are lot of different vendors and their product is always better than the competition. I am glad and confident when I say that I believe in our products at Apartmentguide.com and have the facts that can back up my beliefs. I have been in the multifamily industry for about 8 years and since starting my career at Apartmentguide.com I have learned a lot.

As a community manager or regional or even an owner of a community if I am trying to maximize my return on investment I want to know where my leads are coming from. One thing that I have noticed is that there is a disconnect in the tracking process when prospects come through the door or contact the community. That is why it is imperative to have good customer service from your vendors. Tracking where your traffic is coming from is one of the most important factors in deciding where to advertise. Your relationship with your vendor is very important in achieving your goals.

That is why we at Apartment Guide make it easy. Apartmentguide.com has an industry leading back end system with the our online product that helps differentiate your leads (print, or online) and tells you where your leads are coming from when they are contacting you and also when you are responding to them as well (email leads only). We also have a family of sites that is leading the industry nationwide and have been for the last 5 to 7 months. I understand that many prospects are using multiple sites in searching for the right place to live and therefore they might be giving false information when telling you how they found your community. Not because they are lying but because they have used a few different sources.

One way around this is to make sure that you have a catch phrase or incentive on your listings weather online or in a print publication that will make them remember that they saw your listing on a particular site or in a particular print publication. Make sure that if a prospect has seen your community that they have something to remember you by. Not just the photos and amenities that you have on your ad. Everyone loves a special and everyone loves getting something in return so the little things can help you in tracking your leads.

If anyone is interested in learning more about Apartmentguide.com and our family of sites please feel free to contact me. I would love to speak with you at any time to discuss how we can help. I look forward to your feedback…..

Great discussion guys. It's great to hear everyone's different perspectives. Great way to learn. Cheers!

Since you are looking for National numbers - as the AVP of Marketing for For Rent Media Solutions, I will provide them for our company. It is important to note that our research shows us that consumers are looking for information in many different ways now: print, internet, mobile, and on video. In addition, they are relying on referrals from their social network. That is why at For Rent Media Solutions, we have all of your bases covered: 1. Vast Distribution - We have over 200 partnerships on major search engines, affiliate networks and directories. And with our exclusive relationship with Homes.com, comScore shows that we drive more unique visitors to our network of sites than Apartment Guide’s network or Apartment Finder's network. Our annual print circulation of 20 million publications is distributed to top retailers nationwide. 2. Interactive Print - Not only do we have better print distribution than our competitors nationally, we have made our print offering interactive with text messaging, Quick Response (QR) codes on the front cover and we encourage our customers to utilize their "follow us" icons for social media. Our internal numbers show us that 56% of all our leads are driven by our print products. 3. Unmatched Mobile - nearly 10% of our LEADS are being generated by our mobile offerings. We give you more mobile exposure than any other ILS with 4 apps, 3 mobile sites and text messaging. 4. Leveraged Social - Over 83,000 lifetime social media "shares" have been generated from our products. More than 9,400 shares were generated in July 2010 alone. 5. Custom Video - For Rent has the largest video network in the industry providing more than 2 million view in July 2010, and over 31.1million lifetime views.

As you can see, For Rent Media Solutions offers property managers a complete integrated marketing solution that lets them communicate with renters across various platforms. We are constantly expanding our reach and creating more technologically advanced ways to reach renters any time any place, generate more awareness about our clients’ listings and ultimately drive more leads to their door!

Feel free to contact me if I can put you in touch with a local sales representative.

Great discussion and posts everyone, but let's try to not turn this into anything personal. We all have valid reasons why we may like one publication over another; and we would expect that a representative from either would tout their strengths. The overall message, though, is that the person(s) making the buying decision needs to look at many things in order to choose well for their unique situation, city, community type, management company, etc. I have seen a marketing director arbitrarily choose just one, without doing the research, to their peril. Each is useful and valid or they wouldn't be in the business for 30 years!

Presently I market for 13,000+ units within the state of FL. Formerly (less than two years ago) I represented 23,000+ assets throughout the United States. In both marketing scenarios from an overall measurement I found ForRent to generate the most inquiries, but more importantly generate the most leases. However, there were small isolated markets where a different guide might have had higer impact, but these were isolated.
In my research and interviews with the main guides in preparation for my 2011 budgets I have found that ForRent print/guide distribution is solid and well distributed in areas, while other guides have reduced their distribution level. I have been informed by the guides that have greatly reduced distribution that their savings is being invested in electronic media/advertising - which I have found to be true. However, in truly reviewing the online products I have found ForRent once again having a more intuitive site and visually appealing site. Most importantly, in working with my sales reps from all of the guides, it has become obvious to me that ForRent is leading the way with Social Media and Technology, inclusive of tagging.
To go on the record,I do not feel any of the companies are bad or unproductive, each have something to offer and are worthy investments. However, in my experience recently and historically, I have found ForRent to statistically provide me with the highest return on my investment. Additionally, I feel their creative department is a step above the rest, the guide and online offers a wider range of flexibility typically at a better price and from my experience the customer service is superior.
Historically I have used a mix, but as budgets have gotten tighter, I use the mix in the toughest markets in conjunction with ForRent, and only ForRent in the remaining markets.

As we know, media fragmentation is at an all time high and it's become ever more challenging to reach consumers with a clear, consistent message. It's imperative that advertisers have at their disposable as many consumer touchpoints as possible to reach potential renters.

At Apartment Guide, we reach consumers with an integrated marketing approach through innovative online, mobile and print solutions. And, our integrated approach is paying off - we're driving more unique visitors to our website than any of our competitors (4.65 million unique visitors in July as measured by comScore)and more quality leads than ever for our advertisers. For example, in Fort Lauderdale we delivered 116 leads to every advertiser on average in August. In Atlanta, we sent 88 leads and in Orlando, we delivered 87 leads to each of our advertisers in August.

And, we continue to find innovative ways to reach on-the-go consumers including our iPad, iPhone and Android apps.

Feel free to contact me for more information about Apartment Guide.

I want to take the opportunity and thank everyone for their responses to my original post. Never in this lifetime would I have thought I would receive such magnificent feedback. The discussion was strictly started to see other peoples input in this subject and share it with my company, and honesty it has been much more than that. It has been a rewarding discussion, and really shows how much expertise and assistance is available out there in our industry. Thanks again everyone!

Anybody pay for the featured property listings on these sites? How much does it cost and do you see a return on your investment?

I do not know how much it cost but I know as a leasing specialist I get alot of For Rent Calls. I would say three for every five phone calls are For Rent. They have a lot to offer you as well.

I think that everyone will have different results with their marketing efforts; therefore ALL decisions regarding how marketing money is spent is going to HAVE to be based on cold, hard FACTS. You really need to train your staff to ASK THE QUESTION about where they saw your ad, and TRACK the responses. Let's take the cost factors out of the equation for now and assume they are all equal and consider the following traffic pattern for the last 30 days:


Total Traffic: 150 (avg 3/day)
For Rent (print and web): 5
Apartment Guide (print and web): 50
Craigslist (web): 25
Pennysaver: 25
Resident referral: 5
Walk in: 10
Target marketing (putting your efforts where people will look; whether it be at the local pet store/vet office if you are pet friendly, or at the local college campus, or outreach to the military base/recruiters, or advertising in local houses of worship newsletters. This is marketing to what makes the property different than others): 30

Looking at these numbers, why am I bothering to place ads in For Rent, when it is clearly not working for me? In this scenario, I DROP For Rent, and reduce the Resident referral(this is still a viable marketing venue) 'bounty'. I would also increase efforts in the Target marketing to recapture the 5 opportunities missed by dropping For Rent.


But, I have said it before, and I will say it again; I would rather spend $10 on keeping a resident, than $100 to find a new one. If you change your marketing focus to that of retention, you can get away with spending less and using low/no cost marketing venues. If your residents are leaving at a high rate, I would be seriously looking to understand and resolve the WHY. Are these residents leaving for reasons outside your control? There is a recent discussion here that addresses this.